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Berkeen ยท 3 years ago ยท r/IdleHeroes. I got tokens for the super casino, does anyone know if there will be a super casino event (i cant remember if there has.


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And a lot of these basically copy the 'packs' mechanic from collectible card games, so those would have to be affected too, by any new law. Countries have already started banning some games with such mechanics, like loot boxes; e. Many of those games are actually implementing gambling with their virtual currency. If that issue worked, it would work for alcohol too. I think if we could wrap our minds around what is happening psychologically in these games, most of them would be off-limits to children. It's also the case these games are doing nothing magic the gathering hasn't been doing for decades. Just because alcohol makes you ill doesn't stop people with an addiction from drinking themselves sick and waking up and immediately resuming drinking. Firstly how do you define which parts are fun giving and which parts are addiction inducing? Sure, Blizzard does this a lot with their games. It seems they've simply replaced the concept of casino chips with virtual currency. I don't have an answer, fwiw, but I'm not overly keen on this solution. I don't know. There are couple of reasons: 1 Children are already restricted from consuming alcohol and coffee. Many games may as well be slot machines for all the interaction and experience they give. Magic the Gathering, while flawed, is a real game that can be played with skill. Then when they are properly hooked, ramp up the difficulty level to a limit where just paying a bit of money would make the game as fun as it was during the evaluation phase. The proposal doesn't restrict the fun-giving part, only the addiction-inducing and addiction-exploiting parts. The fact that some countries have started to impose regulation against some of the tactics these gaming companies use like Belgium banning loot boxes[0] suggests that this is starting to be recognized. People enjoy progression systems in games, they are engaging and fun, and there are clear cases where these are abusive. That's the beauty of it, they don't even have to hand money back to the user. To try and shorten my response - I agree with you that the core issue is a predatory design, and that the addictions have differences to physical addictions. Those "casual"-games look like a gateway drug to gambling addiction to me. But I believe that we must try to discourage people from creating "games" of the "Skinner-box" colour. The idea is that advertising often gets people to buy things that are bad for them like maybe an energy drink? I fear our society will end up in a worse place because of businesses like this one. These online "games" have barely any game in them at all; it's very telling that in many of them you essentially spend money to bypass the tedious parts, which is actually all there is as well as buying trinkets, skins, etc. This is sort of like what advertising does to people in real life. Underrated comment IMHO. If you look at the last 10 years in those places, the "gambling" games basically are taking over an ever-increasing amount of floorspace. They are thinly disguised online gambling, which makes them worse in my book. TheOperator on May 6, I feel these games are less dangerous than gambling is. What is firmly in the camp of fun for many many people could easily be considered enabling for a large group of others. Semaphor on May 6, {/INSERTKEYS}{/PARAGRAPH} ApolloFortyNine on May 6, As long as you don't have a way to exchange back for cash, it's likely protected under all the same laws that make Chuck E Cheese legal. Thanks for elaboration. There's no proper defense for most people. {PARAGRAPH}{INSERTKEYS}What scares me about modern "casual" games like this one is their ability to extract money from people in a methodical, merciless way. We should look at ways of reducing the reasons why people fall I to these traps, and look at regulating the monetisation methods of these games, otherwise they'll just change tack and appear in a slightly different form in 18 months time with creative workarounds which have already been mentioned - multiple games with tie ins, gifting, streaks, external purchased to interact with the game. What happens to their neurological development after five years of exposure to this "gambling" state? Whereas these games absolutely are designed like this. To give random examples of games I spent ridiculous amount of time on as a kid: StarCraft and Fallout 1 and 2. The real solution here is that we need legislation for "casual" games that puts addictive games into the same bucket as gambling, but doing that is going to be really difficult how do you even legally define bad addicting gameplay? Speaking an ex- and now current MTG player, it most definitely has a strong gambling aspect to it. I'm with you on this and I think the problem really got started when Zynga began actively optimizing to monetize underlying addiction in its core users years ago. They borrow mechanics from games usually found in casinos and it is frightening to see how we let our kids play these games without much thought. An ad convincing me to try X energy drink at least results in me getting an energy drink. Under 13 and you're too young to play these games. One, it's not just "enabling". Make the user invest their time into the game. PhasmaFelis on May 6, Which I'm fine with, personally. I don't believe that saying "if you can get 20x more people addicted you can still earn the same" is the right way to punish those abuses though. Also, are the minnows really loss leaders or just not as profitable? No really. At their core, the majority of games are Skinner boxes, and everything else is dressing over that even MP games. What's interesting is that we've decided to define gambling according the rules of the gameโ€”in reality, "gambling" is probably more akin to a psychological state that can be induced by many different rulesets and experiences. They do have some 'gameplay' outside of this but it is not much different from the various frills on video slot machines. There is a meaningful difference between games optimized for being fun and an artistic expression - like most video games in 80s, 90s and s - and skinner boxes thinly wrapped in a theme. It seems to me gambling has a greater ability to suck money out of peoples pockets. And scary as hell. Selling tobacco is "enabling", those games are actively designed to max out the addiction factor. Don't care if this means there's a bit of a double standard. I think this is an important point. They were "addictive" in the sense a good book or a good sports can be addictive. I'm a big fan of video games, but games that are essentially thinly-veiled attempts to get people addicted and extract money make me queasy. If there's anything to compare these kind of "games" with, maybe it's precisely with online gambling. There is a very fine line between engaging and enabling, and it's a fuzzy one. Does it only apply to these style of games or do games like league of legends need to limit purchases too? Maybe people buying virtual digital items is better for society than buying a brand new Corvette. Implementing a limit isn't going to stop people who are addicted to these games from finding of them to make progress on to scratch that itch. The idea behind it is more that it prevents whales, destroying the business model That's who they're targeting. In the eye of the user it then becomes the same as money. On a side note, I find it extremely interesting that that same law you mention explicitly sidesteps an even older form of "child gambling" in the form of trading and collectible card games. It would destroy the current whale business model, but it might still result in going after big spenders in other fashions by getting more games for them to play a shorter time each and it might result in them modifying the feedback loop to get more people spending the maximum allowed. The trick is to make the user perceive value in whatever digital artifact their are providing. I would add time and attention as an important distinction. Two, I agree the line is fuzzy, but I think the "you'll know it when you'll see it" argument does apply in this case. There are many games out there world of Warcraft for example which impose weekly lockouts - no matter how much you play you can't progress past a certain point. It's hard to define what that difference is, because it ultimately is a difference of Colour[0], which is something hard to capture in laws. But the real question is: what happens to the mind of an eight-year-old if they have a gambling simulator in their pocket every day? I do agree with the concerns you brought up. The business model of those predatory games is targeting a heavily skewed distribution, in which there's a long tail of people who just wasted a lot of their time and a bit of money, and a bunch of whales that dump disproportionate amount of cash into the games. Create fake rewards for arbitrary actions. Mobile games today are largely thinly-veiled attempts to induce this state in children through various Skinner Box mechanics in order to get at their parents' wallets. SkyBelow on May 6, If it is a simple solution, then there likely is a simple work around. As for the "fine line between engaging and enabling", two points. What ends yo happening is people start at the lockout, burn through the allotted content as soon as possible, and then just wait a week and come back. Time is money right? But they were first and foremost designed to be fun and tell a story, addictiveness was incidental. It's not pleasant. I'm of two minds about this solution I like the "it'll immediately destroy the whole business model" approach , but I'll bite. Coffee may have been a bad example but tobacco is another reasonable comparison - limiting tobacco consumption to an arbitrary limit won't help people with a nicotine addiction. Absolutely this. Games like this are selling you on a worthless digital item. In this case, large companies with multiple games can have cross game promotions.